I would love to see CLOs move towards electronic trading. Right now they trade with an illiquidity and complexity premium. It can take two hours to prepare a b-wic, then you get hit by someone’s out-of-office email, and then maybe you find the docs aren’t in place.

We have looked closely at auction theory. Applying it to the CLO market, I believe that for the best economics you must give all the information to all participants before an auction. It has to be as open as possible. To achieve that investors should be able to see trading levels live. Communicating bilaterally with 30 dealers is impossible. But an electronic platform would bring CLO investors together. To further promote liquidity and participation I would suggest transparency on post-trade colour being shared with all auction participants.

Liquidity is very important to us. It’s what made credit default swaps and CDS indices originally so attractive. But in 2013 we saw a secondary market developing for CLOs, which attracted us and many other hedge funds that prioritise the ability to trade an asset.

Middle market CLO mezz. These deals were priced too close to regular CLOs backed by syndicated loans in terms of spread. But the difference in liquidity for the underlying loans is huge. With the coronavirus pandemic, the government might be too late and lack efficient programmes for lending to small businesses. Some of them will struggle to survive. Direct help to consumers still leaves many small companies vulnerable and will not prevent some closing.

My two little boys inspire me every day. They are always positive, willing to try again and know what they want.

I think we will get through the crisis, and financial markets will bottom a lot faster than main street businesses recover.

I am hopeful that 2020 will be a positive test case for CLO equity. Those deals that still have time left in their reinvestment periods and smaller triple C buckets are well positioned for a recession. CLOs are an excellent tool for trading volatility. The average recession lasts for 18 months, but you have to remember that there will be blue skies at the end. If you can stomach mark-to-market volatility, then you can benefit, knowing that CLOs these days get reset and can run for 10-plus years. The locked in financing, for an equity investor, is priceless.

We are interested to see how managers perform. With the Fed supporting IG credit, once markets stabilise and issuance returns for select managers, the CLO arb will look a lot better.