September 2021 | Issue 238
Opinion CLOs

The CLO industry can be a little clubby… it feels like there are few advocates

David Altenhofen
Senior portfolio manager PensionDanmark
Born:
Copenhagen
Lives:
Nivaa, north of Copenhagen
Education:
University of Copenhagen, masters in economics
Fun fact:
Altenhofen is a barbecue enthusiast. He especially likes low and slow cooking on the smoker. “I have not perfected the brisket yet, but I’m getting on okay with ribs and pulled pork,” he says.
Last holiday:
Lake Garda in Italy a few weeks ago.
Favourite movie:
It’s between Godfather I/II, but probably the second one as it has Robert De Niro.
Career:
Altenhofen started his career in 2005 at Danske Bank and then spent seven years at Danmarks Nationalbank as an economist. He got first-hand experience of CLOs at Accunia Credit Management in 2014, leaving in 2018 to join PensionDanmark. He primarily covers CLO investments, but also looks at corporate credit.
PensionDanmark:
is a pension fund with about €36 billion in assets and 765,300 members at the end of last year. Its credit exposure includes domestic credit, high yield, CLOs and corporate loan funds.
Q.
What are the best investments today?
A. I CLO debt, or emerging market debt, where you can still get a pick up in spreads. The combination of these markets — CLOs backed by infrastructure loans from emerging market countries — is a niche area, but something we are looking at it.
Q.
How have you got your pension stakeholders comfortable with CLOs?
A.
It is important to be communicative internally with all stakeholders, so one of the first things I did when I joined PensionDanmark was a primer on CLOs. It’s transparent and helps investors and decision-makers understand the market. A good dialogue across front, middle and back-office as well as legal also helps.

Sometimes, the CLO industry can be a little clubby. We have an asset class that has delivered over two decades and withstood severe stress, but it feels like advocates are scarce.
Q.
Where do you see the relative value between US and European CLOs?
A.
The US market is much larger and hence offers the ability to diversify a portfolio. There is greater portfolio overlap in Europe, but par subordinations are higher at each point in the capital structure. We need to fully hedge FX risk and the cross currency basis is close to zero, having been 20-40bp. Because of this, we have been looking more at US CLOs, but the opportunity is a bit better in Europe where we have the benefit of Euribor floors.
We tend to focus on CLO managers that run somewhat conservative or liquid strategies.
Q.
Who is your inspiration?
A.
I am an avid reader and podcast listener of anything on financial markets. Anything from Howard Marks specifically is very insightful.
Q.
What is the best credit investment you have made?
A.
Buying CLO triple A-rated paper in March and April last year was great. We sold a part of that earlier this year, realising returns above 10%, which is great, given the underlying credit risk. Cash is king and when volatility hits, investors tend to sell the most liquid assets and that meant elevated sales of senior CLO paper, which meant great opportunities.
Q.
And the worst?
A.
I wish I was more active following the volatility and price drops in March last year. Triple A CLOs were a no-brainer, but there were opportunities lower down the capital structure, with double Bs trading at 40 cents on the euro.
Q.
Where do you see opportunities for your business in credit?
A.
ESG is evolving rapidly at the moment and this is exciting to follow. I think that securitisations, including CLOs, can contribute to sustainable finance going forward.

Europe is not filled with oil and gas credits, so the E in ESG doesn’t pose as much of a risk as it does in the US. But there are signs US CLO managers are getting on board with ESG. We send out a questionnaire to managers and use their responses as part of our risk assessment analysis.
Q.
Where is the market heading?
A.
Listed equities are trading near or at all-time highs, while spreads are at historically tight levels. It will probably be a slow grind tighter for CLOs, but it is important not to be complacent.
As a credit investor you are always worried about what could go wrong (my wife gets annoyed at that). But as a long-term investor, it is important not to be complacent when the going is good and liquidity is ample. On the flip side, you have to be less terrified when markets blow out.
Some investors will splurge their allocations immediately, rather than patiently allocating. I can call capital whenever spreads are interesting. In Q2 for instance, we only bought a smaller piece in one CLO triple A in Europe, but now these are north of 100bp we’re looking again.
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Global credit funds & CLO's
September 2021 | Issue 238
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